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Of course we’re telling our kid there’s a Santa. We don’t have to really deal with it this year, because he’s only six months old. But yeah, we’re on the Santa bandwagon. And it’s a little weird, because we’re telling him some pretty irrational things for parents who consider themselves rational. Yep, there’s a guy who flies around the whole world in one night–well, you know the drill.
I saw some friends of mine taking their one and a half year old daughter through the Santa ritual for the first time. She was barely old enough to focus, but they carefully loaded a plate of cookies in her little hands and walked her over to the Christmas tree, explaining that Santa would later eat the offered snack. And (okay parents, cover the kids’ eyes), they later took little bites out of the cookies to complete the illusion that Mr. Claus had visited during the night.
I admit that the whole scene kind of creeped me out. It wasn’t just that it was a lie, but that it was such an elaborate lie. And that the ritual, the offering, the nice fairy tale nature of it all–it all reminded me of a religious rite. These parents are atheists, like my husband and myself. But they’re doing the Santa thing, because they feel, like we do, that a little irrationality can’t hurt. “But of course,” I said to my husband, when we discussed how to approach the Santa issue, “we shouldn’t go into such detail, with, you know, the cookies and everything.”
He looked like I had taken away dessert forever and ever. “We did that when I was a kid,” he said, “and I loved it.”
So I guess we’re doing that, too.
Julie; December 5, 2008
· Filed under Atheism, Baby, Critical Thinking, Holidays, Religion, Skepticism
JT Said,
December 5, 2008 @ 9:29 pm
Isn’t there evidence that a rich fantasy life encourages thinking and creative skills? As long as the fantasy doesn’t go on too long.
What really gets me is using the Santa myth as a threat of punishment to get behavior in line. It really reminds me of many religions. “If you misbehave Santa won’t bring gifts/God will send you to hell/you won’t receive virgins in the afterlife.” I have no problem with a little Santa-mythologizing around the holiday season, as long as that’s all it is.
Laurie T. Said,
December 5, 2008 @ 9:50 pm
Yeah, we’re doing the Santa thing, too. My husband and I have discussed the pros and cons several times. It’s a hard decision. On the one hand we want our kids to learn how to think critically and learn to recognize and reject woo. But this is a family tradition, it is fun, and all our friends are doing it. Wouldn’t we be stealing some of the magic of childhood if we rejected the Santa ritual?
So we have always told them Santa will bring them presents. But, I’ve got to tell you, it’s getting complicated. Five-year-old Little Skeptic Boy has soooooo many questions now. How can fat Santa possibly fit through our little chimney? How does he get in and leave presents and not wake anyone up? How does he know when I’m sleeping and when I’m awake?
Seven-year-old Little Skeptic Girl doesn’t ask these questions. She just quietly observes. She knows all about skepticism, and rejects many examples of woo when she encounters them. So I suspect that she has begun to doubt the jolly old elf, but doesn’t want to ruin the fun for her brother. Or maybe for me!
Voltaire Said,
December 5, 2008 @ 10:04 pm
Goodness knows I’m many years away from ever facing this dilemma, but I personally buy into the “teach them to be good skeptics and they’ll figure it out themselves” school of thought. In the meantime it’s good fun and tradition, and the act of figuring it out for themselves teaches them independent skepticism and not rely on parents as infallible authorities.
Lee Said,
December 5, 2008 @ 10:06 pm
Can ‘rational dads” comment on your blog?
I’ve been lurking around since the post on scale model of the solar system (you were linked by Phil Plait from Skepticblog) and on the Father Christmas issue (sorry, did I mention I was English?) I’m on the side of telling my sons (eldest 3 years, youngest 4 months) all about him.
We have in fact just got back from the shops after having our family picture taken with the old man. (Did I mention that I also live in Australia and the shops are still open)
My ‘reasoning’ is that the story will make them very happy for a few years and when they are older, they can see for themselves that not everything that is told to them by adults is true. Basically, their first test in scepticism.
Not sure what the ”more experienced’ parents think about this – happy to learn.
See ya
Lee
Kate Said,
December 5, 2008 @ 10:59 pm
We don’t do the Santa thing, except when my dad (the kids’ grandfather) is around, because my dad needs my kids to play along, even if they don’t believe. My kids say hi to Santa at the mall, but don’t expect that Santa will actually come over to our house and bring them presents. Our kids (8, 6 and 4, (the four month old couldn’t care less)) know that we give each other presents at Christmas time.
On the absolute other hand, the Tooth Fairy is a very big deal at our house. The tooth goes into a glass of water at night, and in the morning the tooth is gone, a coin and some glitter and usually a note have appeared. Why we do one and not the other? I have no idea
chanson Said,
December 6, 2008 @ 8:49 am
I agree that belief in Santa Claus is a good object lesson to illustrate the point that people sometimes tell you (and really believe ) things which are false. Yet, somehow that’s not enough to motivate me to tell my kids that Santa Claus is real.
This debate comes up every year, so I’ll just state my usual position on it (see also my post I Believe in Santa Claus ) :
I don’t think it makes Christmas any less fun to realize that the Santa story is just fiction like many other fun stories we like to tell at Christmas time. That’s what it was to me as a kid. I don’t have any recollection of ever having thought that Santa Claus was real or of discovering he’s not, and I’m certain that’s the sort of thing my anecdote-oriented brain would have saved.
I agree that a rich fantasy life probably encourages thinking and creative skills. And to have a rich fantasy life, it helps to realize that the fantasy isn’t real. That way, when inventing stories about it, you’re not constrained by trying to get it right, but can just let your imagination go wild!
For example, my 5-y.o. Léo has invented an imaginary planet that he calls “the planet where live the pitcher poo-poots.” He’s always telling me about strange things that happen on this planet (the other day he explained that it sometimes revolves around our Sun, and sometimes it revolves around a different star ). He’s also planning to be an airplane when he grows up, though I’m not sure whether he thinks that’s really possible or whether he realizes that it’s just a fantasy.
Aaron Helton Said,
December 6, 2008 @ 9:00 am
Even as a rational, skeptical parent, I believe in exposing kids to fantasy in the name of tradition (as well as just fantasy for imaginative play). So we will tell our kids about Santa Claus, probably the Tooth Fairy, and maybe the Easter Bunny. These little fantasies provide a tapestry upon which children can paint their imaginations, and as several other readers have pointed out, they also provide a later means to teach kids how to be critical thinkers. When my oldest son finally asks me if Santa Claus is real, we will go through an examination of the evidence and see what conclusion he reaches based on what he knows. At some point he will arrive at the conclusion that Santa Claus does not exist, but in the mean time, he will have the sense of magic and wonder associated with Santa Claus, and it’s that sense that I would like my kids to keep with them. Many of our greatest leaps forward happened because people held on to a sense of wonder about the world; they dared to imagine things that flew in the face of conventional wisdom and known possibility. Such things will drive us forward as a species as well, so while critical thinking is important, I guess I am saying I don’t want my kids to automatically think every wild idea is impossible.
Also we just have fun with it
Stacy McKenna Seip Said,
December 6, 2008 @ 10:54 am
For me, the Santa story creates a rich opportunity to experience the concept of “I don’t know” – how does he get down those skinny chimneys? How does he go to every house in one night? How does he know what we’ve been up to? “I don’t know. It just works that way.”
Being an engineer, I know from experience that when you get deep enough into any science, you hit a wall of “I don’t know. It just works that way.” Ultimately we reach a point where we do not understand, we can only observe and accept. (Of course, part of being in the sciences is working on pushing that wall ever outward, but for lower level users, the probing questions will end in a wall of “I don’t know”.) I like to know the “how” to everything, but sometimes it’s important for me to just accept and carry on utilizing field-accepted assumptions/observations grounded in “I don’t know”. Being able to do that comfortably, knowing that it’s okay to not know how about EVERYTHING, is very important for me. Personally, I think it’s part of why many top level scientists still have a faith or religion they follow – they know that at a certain level all sciences reach a point of operating on faith of some sort at the “I don’t know” boundary.
Diane Said,
December 6, 2008 @ 12:55 pm
My daughter is 10. The first time she saw a man dressed as Santa at the mall, she asked who he was (she was around 14 months old). I told her the truth because I remember as a child my father breaking the news to me when I was three and I was devastated, not because Santa was fake, but because my father whom I trusted to always be truthful lied to me. I wasn’t going to go through that with my child. She also knows the truth about the tooth fairy, and the easter bunny. We are raising her atheist to boot. She has a very active imagination and still loves playing make believe, but she also is learning critical thinking skills. Telling her the truth about Santa et al hasn’t ruined her imagination one iota, but it hopefully has given her the knowledge that although others will lie to her, her parents won’t be among them.
C Scully Said,
December 6, 2008 @ 1:35 pm
Parents,
Does nobody question why we unremittingly do this? We all do it because even though we fully comprehend that there is no fat man coming down my non-existant chimney, it was and still is, FUN!
The time when we would wait anxiously, listening closely for any sound that Santa may be coming was, for many, the highlight of the year. Whether you put out cookies, or just watch the History Channel’s documentary on the History of Santa Clause, it is still a wonderful time full of magic, hope, joy, and love (also gross commercialism, but that’s another story). Those alone are worth encouraging, and maybe it makes me selfish, but there are few things sweeter than watching your child’s excitement when something magical happens.
Happy Holidays to All!
Cobwebs Said,
December 6, 2008 @ 9:53 pm
We’re doing the Santa thing as well. I’ve seen it argued that “Santa is a gateway drug to religion,” but I’m not terribly concerned about it. I think the crucial difference is that we *expect* kids to grow out of believing in Santa Claus.
Laura Said,
December 8, 2008 @ 11:59 am
We did the Santa thing with our daughter, mostly because we have fond memories of it from our respective childhoods, and all her friends were into it, so we thought it couldn’t hurt. When she figured out the truth, inadvertently revealed by one of my older sisters’ kids, the poor kid felt absolutely betrayed. “Why would you lie?” she wailed, over and over again. Honestly, I never expected that response. But that’s what we got, for the better part of a week: “Why would you lie? Why would a grown-up lie to a kid? It’s just mean, Mom! Mean!” She was seven years old at the time.
I was devastated. She had a very definite understanding of fantasy vs. reality, but could not understand why in a million years we, her loving parents who encourage critical thinking and skepticism at every turn, would have done such a horrible thing to her. It very nearly ruined that particular holiday season for us all, but somehow we got through it. Within a few days she had puzzled out the Tooth Fairy, too, and the Easter Bunny (who brings spring-related, nonreligious goodies to our house every year). I felt like the Worst Mom Ever.
But not long after that, when she realized that the gifts she had most treasured from Santa had actually come from us, the gratitude was immeasurable. She made thank-you cards for gifts received for many Christmases Past. She even apologized for asking Santa for a particularly expensive and hard-to-find gift, knowing Mom and Dad wouldn’t have gotten it for her. “Santa will get it, Mom,” she had said at the time, “because I know you can’t.” When she did get the gift, Santa got the thanks, not us. But she made up for it in droves.
She’s now nine and knows exactly where the gifts come from. But the fun of the season isn’t lost, since she has lots of younger cousins who fervently believe. Now that she’s in on the secret, I think it’s even more enjoyable for her.
Do I still feel terrible for that horrible realization from two years ago? Yes, actually, I do. We had encouraged critical thinking and skepticism in her, but somehow she had come to trust us, her parents, implicitly. It wasn’t the loss of Santa that bothered me and bothers me still. It was the loss of innocence that I mourned.
Rob A Said,
December 9, 2008 @ 9:17 am
We don’t do Santa. I just couldn’t bring myself to lie about it. We’re not complete killjoys: we don’t say, ‘There is no Santa!’ We just don’t make a big deal about xmas presents coming from him. Our eldest is 5 and said the other day, “Farmer Christmas is not really real is he?”
JSug Said,
December 9, 2008 @ 12:06 pm
I’ve actually been thinking about this a lot recently, because our son is almost 3 and this is the first year he’s really excited about Christmas. My wife wanted to do the whole Santa thing, but since I’ve been doing a lot of self-examination lately about beliefs and skepticism, I was more on the fence. Eventually I gave in. The thing is, my wife’s mother, a very fundamentalist Christian, never allowed her to believe in Santa. She was told at a very young age, in no uncertain terms, that Santa was a myth that distracted from the proper focus on the birth of Christ. I’ll give her props for consistency, but the result was that my wife has always felt a little cheated out of her childhood fantasy life.
On the other hand, my folks, both atheists, let us have the fantasy when we were little. We did the tray of cookies and glass of milk for Santa, and I once suggested we leave a carrot for Rudolph, which started a whole new tradition. The tooth fairy left us a quarter, and the Easter Bunny left written clues that led us on a treasure hunt, at the end of which was a big basket of goodies. Now, being a very inquisitive child, I figured things out pretty early on. I’m pretty sure I had outed Santa by the time I was 5 or 6, and the rest followed pretty quickly. But I still played along, because it was fun.
So yes, I’ll let my son believe in Santa for as long as he likes. Of course, I’m not going to take extreme measures to persist the myth. The moment he starts asking questions, I’ll be happy to sit down with him, and help him examine the evidence so he can come to his own conclusion. And now that I think about it, it makes sense as a lesson in how much trust to put in your sources of information.
Not an aetheist Said,
December 12, 2008 @ 12:40 pm
I believe we definitely should not lie to our kids, especially about religious matters. I am sure they would be very sad when they find out that what they believed in all along was not true.
brainheartinfusion Said,
December 15, 2008 @ 10:18 pm
Our children are 2 and 1 so not a big deal yet. But our tentative plans are to treat Santa like we treat our kid’s favorite character: Barney. I don’t tell my children that there is really a man in that dinosaur suit. I let them experience and have fun with it as much as they can at this age. I don’t tell them to be good b/c Barney is watching them. I think Santa can go like this. Let them watch the christmas movies and see Santa. I guess they will make it into what they want it to be. If my children end up really getting into the myth, I will probably play along. If they ask me questions, I hope to encourage critical thinking, without telling them what to think. Who knows, I haven’t even mastered potty training yet.
BHI
The Meming of Life » Santa Claus — The Ultimate Dry Run Parenting Beyond Belief on secular parenting and other natural wonders Said,
December 16, 2008 @ 6:12 am
[...] Q&A was the Santa thing — and it’s so clearly in the air, from Friendly Atheist to Rational Moms, that I can’t even wait ’til Wednesday to chime in. I threw in my two bits on pp. 87-90 [...]
Scarlett Said,
January 13, 2009 @ 1:22 am
Personally, when I have children…I do not want them to believe in Santa Claus.
Sure the Holidays are fun and such and we can have nice, fun family activities, but I’d like for them not to do the whole Santa thing.
Why?
To be quiet blunt, I don’t want a nonexistent fat man to take credit for my hard work and money. I want my children to appreciate the things we give them and to understand the reason behind it.
You can still be creative, imaginative, and etc without Santa Claus.