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	<title>Comments on: Pregnant on the Buckle of the Bible Belt</title>
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	<link>http://www.rationalmoms.com/2008/10/05/pregnant-on-the-buckle-of-the-bible-belt/</link>
	<description>Rational moms of the world unite!</description>
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		<title>By: I.G.</title>
		<link>http://www.rationalmoms.com/2008/10/05/pregnant-on-the-buckle-of-the-bible-belt/comment-page-1/#comment-903</link>
		<dc:creator>I.G.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Feb 2009 21:16:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rationalmoms.com/?p=206#comment-903</guid>
		<description>&quot;How is Kelly G’s statement of teaching a child about faith being “mental child abuse” any different from what the other woman experienced for teaching her child about evolution&quot;

Evolution is not a religion. Evolution does not require you to live your life a certain way and to follow certain practices the way religion does. Evolution is just a fact. It&#039;s possible to accept evolution while also believing in god. Many people believe that evolution is the way god created us.

&quot; I was raised by a mildly religious mother (to this day I don’t know what my father’s views on religion are). I went to Sunday school, had confirmation, the whole 9 yards. However, never during that whole process did my mother ever stifled my creativity.&quot;

It depends on how hard core the christian is. I was raised by Jehovah Witnesses and my creativity was always being stifled. I wanted to take painting classes but my parents wouldn&#039;t allow it because it would take time away from god. I was also not allowed to read certain books because according to my parents they would invite demons into our home. My brother wanted to join our middle school band and my parents said no to him because he would not be able to keep up with his bible studies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;How is Kelly G’s statement of teaching a child about faith being “mental child abuse” any different from what the other woman experienced for teaching her child about evolution&#8221;</p>
<p>Evolution is not a religion. Evolution does not require you to live your life a certain way and to follow certain practices the way religion does. Evolution is just a fact. It&#8217;s possible to accept evolution while also believing in god. Many people believe that evolution is the way god created us.</p>
<p>&#8221; I was raised by a mildly religious mother (to this day I don’t know what my father’s views on religion are). I went to Sunday school, had confirmation, the whole 9 yards. However, never during that whole process did my mother ever stifled my creativity.&#8221;</p>
<p>It depends on how hard core the christian is. I was raised by Jehovah Witnesses and my creativity was always being stifled. I wanted to take painting classes but my parents wouldn&#8217;t allow it because it would take time away from god. I was also not allowed to read certain books because according to my parents they would invite demons into our home. My brother wanted to join our middle school band and my parents said no to him because he would not be able to keep up with his bible studies.</p>
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		<title>By: Emilia</title>
		<link>http://www.rationalmoms.com/2008/10/05/pregnant-on-the-buckle-of-the-bible-belt/comment-page-1/#comment-397</link>
		<dc:creator>Emilia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Dec 2008 23:29:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rationalmoms.com/?p=206#comment-397</guid>
		<description>On this website one mother told of she was criticized by a stranger for teaching her child about evolution.  How is Kelly G&#039;s statement of teaching a child about faith being &quot;mental child abuse&quot; any different from what the other woman experienced for teaching her child about evolution?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On this website one mother told of she was criticized by a stranger for teaching her child about evolution.  How is Kelly G&#8217;s statement of teaching a child about faith being &#8220;mental child abuse&#8221; any different from what the other woman experienced for teaching her child about evolution?</p>
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		<title>By: Emilia</title>
		<link>http://www.rationalmoms.com/2008/10/05/pregnant-on-the-buckle-of-the-bible-belt/comment-page-1/#comment-395</link>
		<dc:creator>Emilia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Dec 2008 05:31:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rationalmoms.com/?p=206#comment-395</guid>
		<description>Kelly G.&#039;s statement that teaching children faith amounts to child abuse reminds me of a quote by a gay unbeliever: militant atheists are a lot like the religious harpies they hate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kelly G.&#8217;s statement that teaching children faith amounts to child abuse reminds me of a quote by a gay unbeliever: militant atheists are a lot like the religious harpies they hate.</p>
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		<title>By: Jorge</title>
		<link>http://www.rationalmoms.com/2008/10/05/pregnant-on-the-buckle-of-the-bible-belt/comment-page-1/#comment-79</link>
		<dc:creator>Jorge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Oct 2008 23:04:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rationalmoms.com/?p=206#comment-79</guid>
		<description>Kelly, might I take issue with one thing in your post? In the 4th paragraph from the end (I think) you say that &quot; Teaching children faith as fact...stifles creativity, hinders critical thought, opens the door for children to accept logical fallacies as truth, and most likely leads to a “crisis of faith” (read: identity deconstruction) later in life...he or she practically closes the door to the spontaneous pursuit curiosity&quot;.

I was raised by a mildly religious mother (to this day I don&#039;t know what my father&#039;s views on religion are). I went to Sunday school, had confirmation, the whole 9 yards. However, never during that whole process did my mother ever stifled my creativity. I had an overactive imagination as a child and she never once tried to stop me from using it. I loved biology back then, I was always watching documentaries on wildlife, and I asked a ton of questions about what I saw. She encouraged me to not accept everything I saw as fact, I had to ask questions (she&#039;s a lawyer - I know, I know :P). All of this while forcing me to attend Sunday school at 9 am.

I did have a &quot;crisis of faith&quot; later on. I&#039;m not sure what identity deconstruction means, so maybe I&#039;m approaching this from the wrong angle, but for me it mean the moment when I started to doubt the existence of God. I came out of that particular problem unscathed. My faith as it was before was changed, but the crisis in itself didn&#039;t harm me.

As for the spontaneous pursuit curiosity, to this day I still log on to the internet just to learn more about something I just saw on television. Granted, back then we didn&#039;t have the net, but I still tried to find out about stuff by asking my parents and going to the library.

In conclusion, I have to say that I think that a religious component in a child&#039;s education is not, by itself, a bad thing, the fact is that the importance of that component has to be balanced very carefully. I turned out all right I think, I believe in God but still like to think of myself as a critical thinker (I know, major contradiction right there :P )

I also have to say that I&#039;m Portuguese, not American, so maybe general cultural values play a part in the way my mom raised me.

Just my two cents :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kelly, might I take issue with one thing in your post? In the 4th paragraph from the end (I think) you say that &#8221; Teaching children faith as fact&#8230;stifles creativity, hinders critical thought, opens the door for children to accept logical fallacies as truth, and most likely leads to a “crisis of faith” (read: identity deconstruction) later in life&#8230;he or she practically closes the door to the spontaneous pursuit curiosity&#8221;.</p>
<p>I was raised by a mildly religious mother (to this day I don&#8217;t know what my father&#8217;s views on religion are). I went to Sunday school, had confirmation, the whole 9 yards. However, never during that whole process did my mother ever stifled my creativity. I had an overactive imagination as a child and she never once tried to stop me from using it. I loved biology back then, I was always watching documentaries on wildlife, and I asked a ton of questions about what I saw. She encouraged me to not accept everything I saw as fact, I had to ask questions (she&#8217;s a lawyer &#8211; I know, I know <img src='http://rationalmoms.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_razz.gif' alt=':P' class='wp-smiley' /> ). All of this while forcing me to attend Sunday school at 9 am.</p>
<p>I did have a &#8220;crisis of faith&#8221; later on. I&#8217;m not sure what identity deconstruction means, so maybe I&#8217;m approaching this from the wrong angle, but for me it mean the moment when I started to doubt the existence of God. I came out of that particular problem unscathed. My faith as it was before was changed, but the crisis in itself didn&#8217;t harm me.</p>
<p>As for the spontaneous pursuit curiosity, to this day I still log on to the internet just to learn more about something I just saw on television. Granted, back then we didn&#8217;t have the net, but I still tried to find out about stuff by asking my parents and going to the library.</p>
<p>In conclusion, I have to say that I think that a religious component in a child&#8217;s education is not, by itself, a bad thing, the fact is that the importance of that component has to be balanced very carefully. I turned out all right I think, I believe in God but still like to think of myself as a critical thinker (I know, major contradiction right there <img src='http://rationalmoms.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_razz.gif' alt=':P' class='wp-smiley' />  )</p>
<p>I also have to say that I&#8217;m Portuguese, not American, so maybe general cultural values play a part in the way my mom raised me.</p>
<p>Just my two cents <img src='http://rationalmoms.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Say Hello to Rational Moms &#124; All Reason</title>
		<link>http://www.rationalmoms.com/2008/10/05/pregnant-on-the-buckle-of-the-bible-belt/comment-page-1/#comment-66</link>
		<dc:creator>Say Hello to Rational Moms &#124; All Reason</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 23:12:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rationalmoms.com/?p=206#comment-66</guid>
		<description>[...] sorts of issues come up? Well, what should you teach children about religion when you live in a very Christian area (where they will inevitably hear Bible stories)?  [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] sorts of issues come up? Well, what should you teach children about religion when you live in a very Christian area (where they will inevitably hear Bible stories)?  [...]</p>
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		<title>By: INTJ Mom</title>
		<link>http://www.rationalmoms.com/2008/10/05/pregnant-on-the-buckle-of-the-bible-belt/comment-page-1/#comment-57</link>
		<dc:creator>INTJ Mom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Oct 2008 17:10:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rationalmoms.com/?p=206#comment-57</guid>
		<description>We&#039;ve always done service projects together as a family.  We&#039;ve done things like &quot;adopt&quot; a portion of a small town we lived in and regularly picked up litter, gone and worked at the local food bank as a family, done sub for Santa as a family project, just to name a few things.

My older 2 kids are in their 20s now, both raised as atheists, and they&#039;ve turned out just fine.  They are 2 of the most honest, ethical, hard working, compassionate, and civic minded young people you&#039;ll ever meet.  I fully expect my younger 2 (now 5 1/2 and 2 3/4) will turn out the same way.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We&#8217;ve always done service projects together as a family.  We&#8217;ve done things like &#8220;adopt&#8221; a portion of a small town we lived in and regularly picked up litter, gone and worked at the local food bank as a family, done sub for Santa as a family project, just to name a few things.</p>
<p>My older 2 kids are in their 20s now, both raised as atheists, and they&#8217;ve turned out just fine.  They are 2 of the most honest, ethical, hard working, compassionate, and civic minded young people you&#8217;ll ever meet.  I fully expect my younger 2 (now 5 1/2 and 2 3/4) will turn out the same way.</p>
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		<title>By: Kelly G.</title>
		<link>http://www.rationalmoms.com/2008/10/05/pregnant-on-the-buckle-of-the-bible-belt/comment-page-1/#comment-55</link>
		<dc:creator>Kelly G.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Oct 2008 12:23:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rationalmoms.com/?p=206#comment-55</guid>
		<description>Mark:

With all due respect, you could easily perform all this community service without religious indoctrination as a part of it. You don’t need the superstitious ideas of “Light” or “the Prince of Peace” to have a positive impact on your society.

The mother did the right thing by keeping her child away from that religious indoctrination. I’d do the same thing. While I have no doubt many positive things happen as a result of the work you do, that&#039;s the pragmatic side. The principle side is that you operate on religious indoctrination--passing faith off as fact to children--which is simply something I couldn&#039;t stand... as a person and a parent.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mark:</p>
<p>With all due respect, you could easily perform all this community service without religious indoctrination as a part of it. You don’t need the superstitious ideas of “Light” or “the Prince of Peace” to have a positive impact on your society.</p>
<p>The mother did the right thing by keeping her child away from that religious indoctrination. I’d do the same thing. While I have no doubt many positive things happen as a result of the work you do, that&#8217;s the pragmatic side. The principle side is that you operate on religious indoctrination&#8211;passing faith off as fact to children&#8211;which is simply something I couldn&#8217;t stand&#8230; as a person and a parent.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Uhde</title>
		<link>http://www.rationalmoms.com/2008/10/05/pregnant-on-the-buckle-of-the-bible-belt/comment-page-1/#comment-53</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Uhde</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Oct 2008 06:01:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rationalmoms.com/?p=206#comment-53</guid>
		<description>Hi, I just wanted to give you some food for thought. I have been writing to a guy in prison for murder. Befriending him and trying to make a difference in one person&#039;s life so he sees that when he gets out, there is a different path he can choose.

Lately, I became a leader in a program called Royal Rangers - it&#039;s kind of like Christian Boy Scouts.

D&#039;Angelo told me that he has experience with Royal Rangers. His neighbor and friend went as a kid, and took him a few times. When his mom found out it was an Assembly of God program, she forbid him from ever going again.

I couldn&#039;t help but cry, and knowing the positive impact we try to have in boys lives, I can&#039;t help but wonder where D&#039;Angelo would be today if he hadn&#039;t been stopped from going to Rangers. Part of me really thinks there&#039;s a good chance we wouldn&#039;t be in the TDCJ system (Texas Department of Criminal Justice). I really think there is a good chance he&#039;d be a positive contributing beneficial member of society...

Yeah. Just something I thought I&#039;d point out what happens when you shield your child from the Light of the world, the Prince of peace...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi, I just wanted to give you some food for thought. I have been writing to a guy in prison for murder. Befriending him and trying to make a difference in one person&#8217;s life so he sees that when he gets out, there is a different path he can choose.</p>
<p>Lately, I became a leader in a program called Royal Rangers &#8211; it&#8217;s kind of like Christian Boy Scouts.</p>
<p>D&#8217;Angelo told me that he has experience with Royal Rangers. His neighbor and friend went as a kid, and took him a few times. When his mom found out it was an Assembly of God program, she forbid him from ever going again.</p>
<p>I couldn&#8217;t help but cry, and knowing the positive impact we try to have in boys lives, I can&#8217;t help but wonder where D&#8217;Angelo would be today if he hadn&#8217;t been stopped from going to Rangers. Part of me really thinks there&#8217;s a good chance we wouldn&#8217;t be in the TDCJ system (Texas Department of Criminal Justice). I really think there is a good chance he&#8217;d be a positive contributing beneficial member of society&#8230;</p>
<p>Yeah. Just something I thought I&#8217;d point out what happens when you shield your child from the Light of the world, the Prince of peace&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: INTJ Mom</title>
		<link>http://www.rationalmoms.com/2008/10/05/pregnant-on-the-buckle-of-the-bible-belt/comment-page-1/#comment-35</link>
		<dc:creator>INTJ Mom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Oct 2008 01:35:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rationalmoms.com/?p=206#comment-35</guid>
		<description>We live in Utah, which is very Mormon.  The Mormon religion/culture permeates every nook and cranny here.  It&#039;s impossible to get away from.  However, I did manage to raise my older 2 as skeptics &amp; they still did ok socially at school.  I think if you teach your kids to question and think critically that it ends up being very difficult for them to buy into religion, especially the very authoritarian sects. 

I&#039;ve found it helpful to remember my experiences growing up as a Mormon as a guide to what I say to my kids.  By that I mean that I not only talk about it in regards to a lack of physical evidence and contradictory scientific evidence, but I&#039;ve talked to them about the psychological harms I experienced, how difficult it was for me to get over them and how I still struggle with the after effects of some and probably will for the rest of my life.  They know this is why I&#039;ve been adamant about keeping them out of religion, because I don&#039;t want them to have to go through all the same mindf***ing crap that I did.  

I don&#039;t just pick on Mormonism there, the same kind of crap can easily be experienced in a lot of other sects, it&#039;s just that my personal experience was with Mormonism so those are the examples I have.

I admit I would be devastated if any of my children decided to become devoutly religious - most especially if they decided to join the Mormon church.  My #2 child is married to a lapsed Mormon and they had a son in May 2008.  My daughter has sworn that she would never become Mormon, but her husband seems to kind of waffle back and forth on whether he believes or not.  I worry about it causing problems for them or about my daughter joining just to try to keep the peace.

My 5 yr old is going to be a challenge.  I actually wrote a bit about that a while back on my own blog:
http://intj-mom.livejournal.com/#item15978</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We live in Utah, which is very Mormon.  The Mormon religion/culture permeates every nook and cranny here.  It&#8217;s impossible to get away from.  However, I did manage to raise my older 2 as skeptics &amp; they still did ok socially at school.  I think if you teach your kids to question and think critically that it ends up being very difficult for them to buy into religion, especially the very authoritarian sects. </p>
<p>I&#8217;ve found it helpful to remember my experiences growing up as a Mormon as a guide to what I say to my kids.  By that I mean that I not only talk about it in regards to a lack of physical evidence and contradictory scientific evidence, but I&#8217;ve talked to them about the psychological harms I experienced, how difficult it was for me to get over them and how I still struggle with the after effects of some and probably will for the rest of my life.  They know this is why I&#8217;ve been adamant about keeping them out of religion, because I don&#8217;t want them to have to go through all the same mindf***ing crap that I did.  </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t just pick on Mormonism there, the same kind of crap can easily be experienced in a lot of other sects, it&#8217;s just that my personal experience was with Mormonism so those are the examples I have.</p>
<p>I admit I would be devastated if any of my children decided to become devoutly religious &#8211; most especially if they decided to join the Mormon church.  My #2 child is married to a lapsed Mormon and they had a son in May 2008.  My daughter has sworn that she would never become Mormon, but her husband seems to kind of waffle back and forth on whether he believes or not.  I worry about it causing problems for them or about my daughter joining just to try to keep the peace.</p>
<p>My 5 yr old is going to be a challenge.  I actually wrote a bit about that a while back on my own blog:<br />
<a href="http://intj-mom.livejournal.com/#item15978" rel="nofollow">http://intj-mom.livejournal.com/#item15978</a></p>
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		<dc:creator>Skepquote of the day &#171; Skepfeeds-The Best Skeptic blogs of the day</dc:creator>
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